Episode 11 - What Makes An Astrologer? with Dorje Kirsten
Today we are doing something a little bit different. This is the third episode of a mini-series entitled ‘What Makes An Astrologer,’ which came about as a result of the comments that Rob Hand made on a recent Astrology Podcast episode about significations in the birth chart of a professional astrologer.
The link to this episode is in the show notes. Therein, Rob Hand makes a bit of an off-hand comment saying
“The 11th sign from the Lot of Fortune is a Place of Acquisition. People [at Project Hindsight] started looking at their charts, and an awful lot of people had one of the following things true: The Lot of Fortune was in a sign ruled by Mercury, or Mercury was in the sign of the Lot of Fortune, or those same two condition applied to The Place of Acquisition, which is the 11th sign from the Lot of Fortune. And to this day, if I don’t find that in a person’s chart, I wonder about their credentials as an astrologer. This is for making money by astrology, by the way. It’s not for studying it. All you need to study it is a good, solid Mercury.”
In the wake of this episode, there was some commentary about it on social media. Being curious about what Hand said, I put out a tweet thread looking at these conditions in five professional astrologers charts. In one way or another, all five of those people met Hand’s criteria. I’ve put a link to that tweet thread in the show notes for your reference.
In response to that, Michel, who is @astrospeccion on Twitter, shared a database of famous astrologers from astro-seek.com with me, and encouraged me to do more research into this subject. I was reticent, but Mo, who is @austral_taur on Twitter, told me that she’d help me carry out a research project looking at Hand’s criteria in famous and/or professional astrologers. Mo and I ended up looking at about 90 charts of historical, famous astrologers, and received input from about 40 contemporary professional astrologers through a Google form survey.
In this series, I will speak with five astrologers and thinkers - Cameron Allen, Daniel Norman, Amy Green, Dorje Kirsten, and Ali A Olomi - about their thoughts on Rob Hand’s comments, and other significations they identify in the birth chart that may point to remuneration from astrology.
The series will culminate in a conversation between Mo and I where we discuss our research and the conclusions that we’ve drawn from it. In addition, I plan to release an article on my website after the series airs where I summarize our findings and the thoughts of my guests in this series.
Please be sure to subscribe to my website for updates, which is linked in the show notes below.
Now for my third conversation of this series with the thought provoking astrologer Dorje Kirsten of Heart Astrology. Here’s a bit more about Dorje from his bio on his website, which I’ve linked in the show notes.
“Dorje was certified as a medieval astrologer in 2011. He is a professional astrologer who offers a variety of services to personal clients. His method of reading the chart is a blend of classical techniques and modern interpretations, a culmination of 30 years of study. For 20 years he has been reading charts professionally using traditional astrology techniques learned from experience and studying courses from such luminaries as Robert Zoller, Robert Hand, Bernadette Brady, and Joseph Crane.”
Speaking on his training as an astrologer, Dorje said: "I think it is important that anyone giving professional readings certifies from a successful teacher, and has mindfulness or therapy training of some sort under their belt."
In this episode we talk about the importance of defining what it means to be an astrologer, the difficulties inherent therein, and the boundaries of the label “professional astrologer.”
In that vein, I experienced a number of synchronicities while working on this series. During this time, I listened to two older Astrology Podcast episodes that spoke directly to topics related with this series, and especially what we focused on today.
The first episode was a conversation between Chris Brennan, Eugenia Krok, and Adam Sommer. Therein, Chris Brennan speaks to how many professional astrologers make their coin. Given that episode aired a few years ago, I reached out to Chris to see if his opinion on the matter had changed at all, and this is what he shared with me:
“I have a broad definition of what it means to be an astrologer, and I classify a lot of people as astrologers even if it isn't their primary vocation. To me, a person is an astrologer if they 1) believe that astrology is a legitimate phenomenon, 2) have studied the subject and become proficient in it, and 3) regularly apply it in their everyday life.
I think what I was saying in that episode is that most people that I consider to be astrologers don't necessarily do that as their primary profession, or don't do it as their only job. And the ones that do make astrology their primary profession often create multiple income streams, through consultations, teaching, writing, etc.”
The second episode that I want to mention was touched upon a number of times in my conversation with Dorje. There’s a quote from Christopher Warnock in the Astrology Podcast episode on ‘The Picatrix’ from around 2:19:00 in. I reached out to Christopher to make sure that he was okay with me quoting him here and he wanted me to let you know that, “It's fine to quote me and I would add that I have supported myself, my wife and my cat very comfortably as an astrologer for many years and I have none of the conditions for making money as an astrologer cited by Rob Hand.”
In commenting on his and Chris Brennan’s shared Aquarius Rising and Moon Warnock says:
“One of the signatures that I think for astrologers, or any fortune teller, it’s not unusual to have an angular Moon or a dignified Moon, because of that intuition. I was going to Japan and doing a lot of these mini-readings and the Japanese do have a lot of fortune telling, it’s much more acceptable, and it’s amazing how many of those people have prominent Moons. And Mercury too. A strong Mercury is also a signature. And then you have people that don’t fit it at all. That’s what’s funny is that you’ll have somebody who’s a great astrologer, and they’ll have none of that stuff at all . . . it’s one of those things of being careful of making any 100% statements about any one indication.”
In addition to talking about the Moon in the charts of astrologers, we also talk about the roles that Venus and Jupiter may play, and get into stoicism vs. theurgy as it relates to the very purpose of astrology. It was a really rich, informative conversation. Thanks again for joining me, Dorje.
I hope you enjoy it.
Please, be sure to check out the links to Dorje’s website and socials below, as well as links to some of the resources that we touch on in our conversation.
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Visit my website here - https://luminaries-in-and-out-of-sect-podcast.ghost.io/
And please subscribe to and rate the show on Apple Podcast or Spotify.
You can also find me on Instagram @sphallastro and Twitter @vincit_qui_se. Please feel free to follow me there, and let me know that you’ve found me from listening to the show.
If you have any questions or feedback on the show, please feel free to email me at: sphallhorary@gmail.com
Book a consultation with Dorje - https://heartastrology.com/
Find Dorje on Instagram and Twitter - https://www.instagram.com/heartastrology168/; https://twitter.com/dorjepadma
Dorje’s article about Rob Hand’s comments - https://heartastrology.com/you-can-be-an-astrologer/
Astrology Podcasters Q&A Trialogue - https://youtu.be/i5ymoA45RAM
‘The Picatrix’ - https://youtu.be/vkTjOonTMpM
My tweet thread about Rob Hand’s Criteria in 5 professional astrologers’ charts - https://twitter.com/vincit_qui_se_/status/1625196832799473665?s=20
Rob Hand on the Astrology Podcast (quote is from 47:00-47:55) - https://youtu.be/u4xJP74Rx1Q
Photo for Cover Art by Luke Stackpoole @WithLuke on Instagram - https://unsplash.com/photos/TRXSkmJb40cIntro/Outro music is ‘Clair de Lune,’ composed by Claude Debussy, played by David O and available courtesy of Great Scott Gadgets - https://greatscottgadgets.com/2021/08-05-open-source-clair-de-lune/